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	<title>Comments for Worlds Without End</title>
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	<link>http://www.withoutend.org</link>
	<description>A Mormon Studies Roundtable</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 19:29:06 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on The Missouri Old Sow Cannon, or “Foli’s Folly” by Christopher Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.withoutend.org/missouri-sow-cannon-folis-folly/#comment-9643</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 19:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.withoutend.org/?p=2615#comment-9643</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great investigative work, Cheryl. That&#039;s really interesting about Mayor Foli.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great investigative work, Cheryl. That&#8217;s really interesting about Mayor Foli.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Like A Boss: A Critique of Nibley&#8217;s &#8220;Leaders to Managers&#8221; by Seth R.</title>
		<link>http://www.withoutend.org/boss-critique-nibleys-leaders-managers/#comment-9636</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 13:12:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.withoutend.org/?p=2592#comment-9636</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, today is a fresh perspective, and it suddenly seems incredibly dumb to be arguing over a comment that wasn&#039;t serious to begin with. So why am I even defending it?

Yes, Alan is right - I got the gender wrong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, today is a fresh perspective, and it suddenly seems incredibly dumb to be arguing over a comment that wasn&#8217;t serious to begin with. So why am I even defending it?</p>
<p>Yes, Alan is right &#8211; I got the gender wrong.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mere &#8216;Tools&#8217; in a Man&#8217;s Exaltation?  An Analysis of Women in D&amp;C 132 by David Bokovoy</title>
		<link>http://www.withoutend.org/mere-tools-mans-exaltation-analysis-women-dc-132/#comment-9634</link>
		<dc:creator>David Bokovoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 12:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.withoutend.org/?p=2607#comment-9634</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello Kristine,

Thanks for sharing your concerns.  I believe it’s very helpful to approach D&amp;C 132 from a diachronic rather than a synchronic perspective.  D&amp;C 132 is in reality an amalgamation of three separate revelations given to Joseph Smith in connection with his work on revising the King James Bible (the JST).  Danel Bachman’s Master’s thesis as well as his article &quot;New Light on an Old Hypothesis: The Ohio Origins of the Revelation on Eternal Marriage.&quot; in Journal of Mormon History 5 (1978):19-32, provides a helpful historical and literary analysis from this angle.

From this perspective, portions of the section deal with the doctrine of theosis while other sections address the concept of plural marriage.  In the same way that some Mormons (and other critical readers of the Bible) accept and reject various portions of the book as inspired, I could see a Latter-day Saint who found the portions of the revelation you’ve cited dealing with plural marriage problematic still accepting the theological construct of theosis (which as I tried to illustrate is from my perspective very much intentionally gender inclusive).

Interestingly, not only does the new introduction to the D&amp;C allow for the possibility of human error within the revelations themselves, but it specifically states that from an historical perspective,&quot;Joseph and the early Saints viewed the revelations as they did the Church: living, dynamic, and subject to refinement with additional revelation.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Kristine,</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your concerns.  I believe it’s very helpful to approach D&amp;C 132 from a diachronic rather than a synchronic perspective.  D&amp;C 132 is in reality an amalgamation of three separate revelations given to Joseph Smith in connection with his work on revising the King James Bible (the JST).  Danel Bachman’s Master’s thesis as well as his article &#8220;New Light on an Old Hypothesis: The Ohio Origins of the Revelation on Eternal Marriage.&#8221; in Journal of Mormon History 5 (1978):19-32, provides a helpful historical and literary analysis from this angle.</p>
<p>From this perspective, portions of the section deal with the doctrine of theosis while other sections address the concept of plural marriage.  In the same way that some Mormons (and other critical readers of the Bible) accept and reject various portions of the book as inspired, I could see a Latter-day Saint who found the portions of the revelation you’ve cited dealing with plural marriage problematic still accepting the theological construct of theosis (which as I tried to illustrate is from my perspective very much intentionally gender inclusive).</p>
<p>Interestingly, not only does the new introduction to the D&amp;C allow for the possibility of human error within the revelations themselves, but it specifically states that from an historical perspective,&#8221;Joseph and the early Saints viewed the revelations as they did the Church: living, dynamic, and subject to refinement with additional revelation.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mere &#8216;Tools&#8217; in a Man&#8217;s Exaltation?  An Analysis of Women in D&amp;C 132 by elizajm</title>
		<link>http://www.withoutend.org/mere-tools-mans-exaltation-analysis-women-dc-132/#comment-9632</link>
		<dc:creator>elizajm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 11:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.withoutend.org/?p=2607#comment-9632</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m with Kristine on this one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Kristine on this one.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mere &#8216;Tools&#8217; in a Man&#8217;s Exaltation?  An Analysis of Women in D&amp;C 132 by Sid Unrau</title>
		<link>http://www.withoutend.org/mere-tools-mans-exaltation-analysis-women-dc-132/#comment-9627</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid Unrau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 05:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.withoutend.org/?p=2607#comment-9627</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent thoughts, David.  Thank you for sharing this thought.  Neither man or woman is without the other before God (exaltation) - it would be interesting to see how the same verse would feel constructed the opposite way:

“If a woman marry a husband by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant…”

It is just as true constructed that way, yet feels different (perhaps).  I often reconstruct gender-specific scriptures that way to see how my perspective might change/be expanded.  I&#039;ve enjoyed many insights thereby.

I believe we have a long way to go, as a Mormon culture; I also notice that many current analyses of LDS (and other) traditional (including secular) doctrines (even: letting females play on male football/wrestling/soccer/etc. teams) are also products of the cultural conditions from which they arise.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent thoughts, David.  Thank you for sharing this thought.  Neither man or woman is without the other before God (exaltation) &#8211; it would be interesting to see how the same verse would feel constructed the opposite way:</p>
<p>“If a woman marry a husband by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant…”</p>
<p>It is just as true constructed that way, yet feels different (perhaps).  I often reconstruct gender-specific scriptures that way to see how my perspective might change/be expanded.  I&#8217;ve enjoyed many insights thereby.</p>
<p>I believe we have a long way to go, as a Mormon culture; I also notice that many current analyses of LDS (and other) traditional (including secular) doctrines (even: letting females play on male football/wrestling/soccer/etc. teams) are also products of the cultural conditions from which they arise.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Like A Boss: A Critique of Nibley&#8217;s &#8220;Leaders to Managers&#8221; by Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.withoutend.org/boss-critique-nibleys-leaders-managers/#comment-9626</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 04:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.withoutend.org/?p=2592#comment-9626</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I just didn’t find his attempt to dismiss my question with an irrelevant ad hominem about gender mistake amusing.&quot;

It is very hard to take seriously a psychological analysis which gets basic, fundamental issues such as gender completely wrong. Also, was there a question in there?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I just didn’t find his attempt to dismiss my question with an irrelevant ad hominem about gender mistake amusing.&#8221;</p>
<p>It is very hard to take seriously a psychological analysis which gets basic, fundamental issues such as gender completely wrong. Also, was there a question in there?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mere &#8216;Tools&#8217; in a Man&#8217;s Exaltation?  An Analysis of Women in D&amp;C 132 by Kristine</title>
		<link>http://www.withoutend.org/mere-tools-mans-exaltation-analysis-women-dc-132/#comment-9623</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 23:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.withoutend.org/?p=2607#comment-9623</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David, this is nice, and I would really, really like there to be a way to make Section 132 tolerable, but I don&#039;t think your analysis does anything to help us escape the gross inequity of verse 41ff, or of the diminished agency of women suggested by the assignment (&quot;appointment&quot;) of women (&quot;virgins&quot;) as rewards for men&#039;s righteousness.

Maybe there is some implication that women are necessary, that there is some mutuality in the eternities, but the earthly commandments outlined barely envision women as human agents, let alone potential goddesses.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, this is nice, and I would really, really like there to be a way to make Section 132 tolerable, but I don&#8217;t think your analysis does anything to help us escape the gross inequity of verse 41ff, or of the diminished agency of women suggested by the assignment (&#8220;appointment&#8221;) of women (&#8220;virgins&#8221;) as rewards for men&#8217;s righteousness.</p>
<p>Maybe there is some implication that women are necessary, that there is some mutuality in the eternities, but the earthly commandments outlined barely envision women as human agents, let alone potential goddesses.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mere &#8216;Tools&#8217; in a Man&#8217;s Exaltation?  An Analysis of Women in D&amp;C 132 by WalkerW</title>
		<link>http://www.withoutend.org/mere-tools-mans-exaltation-analysis-women-dc-132/#comment-9620</link>
		<dc:creator>WalkerW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 22:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.withoutend.org/?p=2607#comment-9620</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fantastic, David.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fantastic, David.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The BYU New Testament Commentary by Bridget Jack Jeffries</title>
		<link>http://www.withoutend.org/byu-testament-commentary/#comment-9619</link>
		<dc:creator>Bridget Jack Jeffries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 22:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.withoutend.org/?p=2575#comment-9619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;Seth&lt;/strong&gt; ~ Where did Eric post corrections to Mark&#039;s OP? I don&#039;t see anything on Eric&#039;s personal Facebook page or on the public WWE site page.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Seth</strong> ~ Where did Eric post corrections to Mark&#8217;s OP? I don&#8217;t see anything on Eric&#8217;s personal Facebook page or on the public WWE site page.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Jason Mack, Joseph Smith&#8217;s Seeker Uncle by Christopher Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.withoutend.org/jason-mack/#comment-9615</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 19:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.withoutend.org/?p=2564#comment-9615</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good idea. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good idea. <img src='http://www.withoutend.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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